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TBN EXPOSED - A Case For The Truth

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From the June 24th, 2001
Deposition of Matthew Wendell Crouch in the Matter of
 
Sylvia Fleener vs. TBN, et al

About the Money
 
Matthew calls it "reimbursement" to TBN. Sounds more like a loan than an investment.  He either doesn't know or his attorneys won't let him tell what he knows.  Nobody works for nothing,

              9                           * * *
          10
          11
          12          (CONFIDENTIAL - FOR "ATTORNEYS' EYES ONLY"
          13               PURSUANT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER)
          14                       Pages 110 -119
          15
          16
          17                           * * *
          
                                                                109

            RAH A. BROWN & ASSOCIATES - (818)879-1420/(818)991-3508 (
 

           1      MR. RAWLS:  Then I would designate that on the answer
 
           2      to this question as being "Attorneys Eyes Only" under that
 
           3      protective order.
 
           4      So you can answer that.  It is just subject to
 
           5      protective order, if you remember the question.
 
           6      THE WITNESS:  I was going to ask for detail or
 
           7      clarification of what you mean by whatever you said. 
 
           8      Quite frankly, I can't remember what the question is.
 
           9      MR. QUISENBERRY:  This is still under protection. 
 
          10     We'll tell you when it goes off.
 
          11      Q    How much revenue has Gener8xion Entertainment
 
          12      received from Providence?
 
          13      MR. RAWLS:  That's not the same question you've asked
 
          14      before.
 
          15      THE WITNESS:  Right.  "Revenue" meaning all inclusive
 
          16      with expensed money, also?
 
          17      Q    BY MR. QUISENBERRY:  Yes.  The entire amount
 
          18      that Gener8xion has received from Providence related to
 
          19      the "The Omega Code" as of this date?
 
          20      A    Roughly one to $1.1 million.
 
          21      Q    And taking just the revenue for sales of "The
 
          22      Omega Code" aside, how much does Gener8xion Enter- 
 
          23      tainment receive from Providence for each sale of a video?
 
          24      MR. RAWLS:  Well, objection.  That assumes facts that
 
          25      are not in evidence that that's the way it's propounded.

                                                                110

               CONFIDENTIAL - ATTORNEYS' EYES ONLY - CONFIDENTIAL
 

           1      MR. COATE:  Join.
 
           2      MR. RAWLS:  You don't have to accept his
 
           3      characterization.
 
           4      THE WITNESS:  I would have to review the document.  I
 
           5      can't remember.
 
           6      Q    BY MR. QUISENBERRY:  Do you have any
 
           7      understanding as to how you are paid -- or excuse me.
 
           8      Do you have any understanding as to what the
 
           9      payment from Providence for revenue based on sales of "The
         
          10     Omega Code" is based upon?
 
          11     MR. RAWLS:  I need to hear that again.
 
          12      MR. QUISENBERRY:  Actually, let me ask it again,
 
          13      because I think I said "based upon" twice.
 
          14      Q    What is the revenue that you receive from
 
          15      Providence Entertainment based upon?
 
          16      MR. RAWLS:  When you say "you"?
 
          17      MR. QUISENBERRY:  "You" meaning Gener8xion
 
          18      Entertainment.
 
          19      MR. COATE:  Objection, calls for legal conclusion by
 
          20      a lay person, and probably ambiguous.
 
          21      MR. RAWLS:  I'll join in the objection.  I think
 
          22      we're clear, but we're continuing the "Attorney Eyes Only"
 
          23      designation until further noted?
 
          24      MR. QUISENBERRY:  Uh-huh.
 
          25      MR. RAWLS:  All right.

                                                                111

               CONFIDENTIAL - ATTORNEYS' EYES ONLY - CONFIDENTIAL
 

           1      THE WITNESS:  The video sublicense from the best of
 
           2      my recollection is based on a royalty arrangement.  I have
 
           3      not seen the executed sublicense between Providence and
 
           4      GoodTimes, so the specifics of that, I have no knowledge
 
           5      of.
 
           6      Q    BY MR. QUISENBERRY:  What do you mean by
 
           7      "royalty arrangement"?
 
           8      A    A percentage of revenues.
 
           9      Q    What is the percentage of revenues that is to go
 
          10      to Gener8xion from Providence Entertainment?
 
          11      MR. RAWLS:  Objection, calls for a legal conclusion. 
 
          12      It calls for an expert opinion.  And I don't know how else
 
          13      to express it, but it is compound.
 
          14      MR. COATE:  Join.
 
          15      THE WITNESS:  I am what would be classified as a
 
          16      creative producer.  You're delving into very specifics
 
          17      that I do not concern myself with, and I have no specifics
 
          18      on those.  That would be an interworking sublicense
 
          19      agreement between Providence and GoodTimes, of which, I
 
          20      have not seen that document.
 
          21      MR. QUISENBERRY:  I'm going to ask the Court Reporter
 
          22      to mark as Exhibit 302 to this deposition and put in front
 
          23      of you a document entitled, Notice of Deposition of
 
          24      Gener8xion Entertainment, Inc. With Production of
 
          25      Documents. 

                                                                112

               CONFIDENTIAL - ATTORNEYS' EYES ONLY - CONFIDENTIAL
 

           1           (Plaintiff's Exhibit 302 marked for             
 
           2      identification by the Deposition Officer and is      
 
           3      attached hereto.)
 
 
           4      MR. QUISENBERRY:  My first question is going to be:
 
           5      Have you seen this document before?
 
           6      MR. COATE:  I'm going to object to the extent that
 
           7      this may call for attorney-client privileged
 
           8      communications.  Just be mindful of not disclosing
 
           9      anything that you've discussed with our offices. 
 
          10      Q    BY MR. QUISENBERRY:  Have you seen this document
 
          11      before?
 
          12      A    I believe so, yes.
 
          13      Q    Attachment A has several matters to be examined
 
          14      listed on it.  I would like to call your attention to item
 
          15      number 11. This item states, "Any and all agreements
 
          16      within your knowledge pertaining to 'The Omega Code.'"
 
          17      Does Gener8xion Entertainment have knowledge of
 
          18      an agreement with Providence Entertainment pertaining to
 
          19      distribution of "The Omega Code"?
 
          20      MR. RAWLS:   Objection.  Agreement between Providence
 
          21      Entertainment and whom?
 
          22      Q    BY MR. QUISENBERRY:  And Gener8xion
 
          23      Entertainment or any other entity that Gener8xion
 
          24      Entertainment knows about?
 
          25      MR. RAWLS:  Can I hear the question again, please. 

                                                                113

               CONFIDENTIAL - ATTORNEYS' EYES ONLY - CONFIDENTIAL
 

           1        (The record was read by the reporter as          
 
           2      follows:
 
           3      "Q    Does Gener8xion Entertainment have
 
           4      knowledge of an agreement with Providence
 
           5      Entertainment pertaining to distribution of "The
 
           6      Omega Code" and Gener8xion Entertainment, or any
 
           7      other entity that Gener8xion Entertainment knows
 
           8      about?")
 
           9      MR. RAWLS:  I'll object to "pertaining to" as vague. 
 
          10     If you know, you can tell him.
 
          11     THE WITNESS:  I believe the question is asking me, do
 
          12     I know or have knowledge about an agreement with
 
          13     Providence; yes, I do.
 
          14     Q    BY MR. QUISENBERRY:  And what are the terms of
 
          15     that agreement with Providence?
 
          16     MR. RAWLS:  I'll object that that calls for a legal
 
          17     conclusion, and that the agreement speaks for itself.
 
          18     If you have an understanding of those terms you can give
 
          19     that to him.
 
          20      MR. COATE:  Join.
 
          21      THE WITNESS:  There are many terms in that agreement,
 
          22      and I'm not sure exactly which ones or what you're asking.
 
          23      Q    BY MR. QUISENBERRY:  Well, let's speak
 
          24      specifically with regard to the royalty arrangement with
 
          25      Providence Entertainment.

                                                                114

               CONFIDENTIAL - ATTORNEYS' EYES ONLY - CONFIDENTIAL
 

           1      What is the royalty arrangement with Providence
 
           2      Entertainment? 
 
           3      MR. RAWLS:  I'll object that it is vague and that it
 
           4      calls for a legal conclusion.
 
           5      You can answer from your understanding, if you
 
           6      have one.
 
           7      MR. COATE:  Join.
 
           8      THE WITNESS:  I don't have a specific knowledge of
 
           9      what the royalty arrangement is because it is a very
 
          10     complex document.
 
          11      Q    BY MR. QUISENBERRY:  Do you have any general
 
          12      knowledge with regard to what the royalty arrangement is
 
          13      with Providence Entertainment?
 
          14      MR. RAWLS:  The same objections.
 
          15      MR. COATE:  Just the term "general knowledge" join. 
 
          16      May also call for speculation.
 
          17      THE WITNESS:  My general knowledge is that there is
 
          18      varying royalty percentages based upon theatrical
 
          19      distribution and home video, and that they are different;
 
          20      and those definitions are over my head, as far as
 
          21      understanding and knowing the specifics of them.
 
          22      Q    BY MR. QUISENBERRY:  Is there anyone at
 
          23      Gener8xion Entertainment who understands and knows the
 
          24      specifics of those agreements better than you?
 
          25      MR. RAWLS:  Objection, calls for speculation. 

                                                                115

               CONFIDENTIAL - ATTORNEYS' EYES ONLY - CONFIDENTIAL
 

           1      MR. COATE:  Join.
 
           2      THE WITNESS:  Not at Gener8xion, no.  Not an employee
 
           3      of Gener8xion.
 
           4      Q    BY MR. QUISENBERRY:  Other than those employed
 
           5      by Gener8xion is there anyone who has knowledge of the
 
           6      specifics of the royalty arrangement with Providence
 
           7      Entertainment better than you
 
           8      A    Yes.
 
           9      MR. RAWLS:  Objection, calls for speculation.
 
          10      MR. COATE:  Join.
 
          11      THE WITNESS:  Yes.
 
          12      Q    BY MR. QUISENBERRY:  Who 
 
          13      A    Our counsel.
 
          14      MR. RAWLS:  Excuse me.  Same objections.
 
          15      THE WITNESS:  My counsel.
 
          16      Q    BY MR. QUISENBERRY:  And who is your counsel in
 
          17      that regard?
 
          18      A    Officially, Marty Barab; and unofficially,
 
          19      Lawrence Mortorff.
 
          20      Q    Has Gener8xion Entertainment received any moneys
 
          21      from GoodTimes Entertainment based upon sales of "The
 
          22      Omega Code"?
 
          23      MR. RAWLS:  Objection, calls for speculation.
 
          24      MR. COATE:  Join.
 
          25      THE WITNESS:  GoodTimes sublicenses directly to 

                                                                116

               CONFIDENTIAL - ATTORNEYS' EYES ONLY - CONFIDENTIAL
 

           1      Providence.
 
           2      Q    MR. QUISENBERRY:  So GoodTimes, to your
 
           3      knowledge, never makes payments directly to Gener8xion?
 
           4      A    Never. 
 
           5      Q    Has Providence Entertainment at any time made
 
           6      payments to Code Productions, Inc.?
 
           7      A    I believe that any payments have come to
 
           8      Gener8xion.  I -- you know to the best of my knowledge,
 
           9      all the payments have come to Gener8xion not to Code.
 
          10     Q    Okay.  And just to close it out, has GoodTimes
 
          11     Entertainment to your knowledge made any payments to Code
 
          12     Productions, Inc.?
 
          13     A    None.
 
          14     Q    As far as you are aware, does GoodTimes
 
          15     Entertainment make payments based upon sales of "The
 
          16     Omega Code" to any other entity besides Providence
 
          17     Entertainment?
 
          18     MR. RAWLS:  Objection, calls for a legal conclusion. 
 
          19     Assumes facts not in evidence, without foundation and
 
          20     calls for speculation.
 
          21      MR. COATE:  Join.
 
          22      THE WITNESS:  No.
 
          23      Q    BY MR. QUISENBERRY:  To your knowledge does
 
          24      Providence Entertainment make any payments based upon
 
          25      sales of "The Omega Code" to any entity, other than

 
                                                                117

               CONFIDENTIAL - ATTORNEYS' EYES ONLY - CONFIDENTIAL
 

           1      Gener8xion Entertainment, Inc.?
 
           2      MR. RAWLS:  Same objections.
 
           3      MR. COATE:  Join.
 
           4      THE WITNESS:  I take issue with the word "payments,"
 
           5      and probably should be better classified as reimbursements
 
           6      to Trinity Broadcasting Network.
 
           7      Q    BY MR. QUISENBERRY:  So Providence Entertainment
 
           8      makes some transfer of moneys to Trinity Broadcasting
 
           9      Network based upon sales of "The Omega Code" movie?
 
          10     MR. RAWLS:  Objection, calls for a legal conclusion. 
 
          11     Calls for speculation and is without foundation.
 
          12     MR. COATE:  Join. 
 
          13     THE WITNESS:  I am not here to speak on behalf of
 
          14     Trinity today, but my understanding is that they make the
 
          15     transfers, as you said, directly to TBN.
 
          16     Q    BY MR. QUISENBERRY:  And what are those payments
 
          17     based upon.
 
          18     MR. RAWLS:  Objection, calls for a legal conclusion. 
 
          19     Calls for speculation and is without foundation.
 
          20     MR. COATE:  Also, vague as to the term "based upon."
 
          21     THE WITNESS:  Exploitation of the film.
 
          22     Q    BY MR. QUISENBERRY:  Was TBN a party to the
 
          23     agreement between Providence entertainment and
                                                                                            Gener8xion?
          24     MR. COATE:  Objection, calls for a legal conclusion
 
          25     as to the term "party."

                                                                118

               CONFIDENTIAL - ATTORNEYS' EYES ONLY - CONFIDENTIAL
 

           1     MR. RAWLS:  I'll join.
 
           2     THE WITNESS:  To the best of my knowledge, they might
 
           3     not have been signatory to that agreement, but they
 
           4     approved the, you know, basic understanding of the
 
           5     agreement.
 
           6     MR. RAWLS:  I need to speak to the witness for just a
 
           7     minute.
 
           8                      (Off the record.)
 
           9
 
          10       (END CONFIDENTIAL - "ATTORNEYS' EYES ONLY PORTION")
 
          11
 
          12
 
          13                            * * *
 
       

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